Vizio 1008 vs Nexus 7

[bmw328]

You already agreed with this (see post 6).

I agreed that 2 like items designed for the same purpose available at the same time and still being sold as new for the same price no matter how poorly configured one is will and should be compared to each other. It's part of free enterprise.

To eliminate this comparison Vizio could remove the tablet from their web site so un-suspecting consumers wouldn't group this in with tablets that have superior technology and sell for the same prise or they could lower the price so they are compared to cheaper tablet that have lower specs.

Just because a company uses state of the art components and another uses old technology does not exclude a manufacturer from the comparison of like devices that sell for the same price.

You can write a 12 page dissertation on how unfair YOU think this is but this fact will still be true.

Vizio could also use the method that most of you who have replied to my post seem to believe to be fair; in which case they could add this to there web site:

Vizio believes due to the fact that our tablets use inferior or older components then other manufacturers who sell their tablets for the same price we don't recommend comparing us to them because it just wouldn't be fair.
Thank you and enjoy your Vizio tablet experience?

 

[J515OP]

Nobody is saying you can't compare these two tablets. Heck if I wanted I could compare the Vizio to an IBM super computer. The point is that it is a lopsided comparison and of limited meaning. Such comparisons have nothing to do with free enterprise, if anything they only have to do with freedom of thought and speech which is encouraged

Even if Vizio drops the price or no longer sells the Vtab that doesn't matter for comparison purposes. One really doesn't have anything to do with the other. Why is a comparison validated by having two things on sale at the same time or for around the same price? The point to consider is does comparing an older less capable version of something to a newer more capable version of something mean really mean anything? Maybe in baseball you can make an argument for comparing stats of a previous generation to the current generation but this does not work very well for technology unless the purpose is to show how far technology has come. There is absolutely a case to be made for not comparing newer and older technologies and in fact everyday older technologies are left out of the conversation.

The facts here are (1) that you can compare a Vtab and a Nexus 7, (2) that the comparison will be lopsided and (3) the usefulness of such a comparison is limited. The Vtab can be compared to any device as a point of reference but it doesn't change what the device is. The only questions to ask are does this tablet offer the performance I want, does it offer the features I want and does it do these things at a price that I think is fair relative to each of these. The secondary question is does another device offer a better value proposition for these same criteria. If the comparison tablet is a contemporary comparison you will arrive at one result. If it is displaced in time and technology you will get a different result.

At the end of the day it would be extremely difficult to recommend the Vtab at this stage of the game unless the only things that mattered to a user were 3 speakers, an 8" screen and an ir remote or if the price were dropped sufficiently to compensate for its shortcomings compared to current tablets.

 

[bmw328]

Nobody is saying you can't compare these two tablets. Heck if I wanted I could compare the Vizio to an IBM super computer. The point is that it is a lopsided comparison and of limited meaning. Such comparisons have nothing to do with free enterprise, if anything they only have to do with freedom of thought and speech which is encouraged

I never said anything about not being able to compare them I said it was a fair comparison. Just like you others said its a lopsided comparison.
The comparison is perfectly fair the results are lopsided.

You could compare a IBM supercomputer to he Vizio, however in case you have never seen one an IBM supercomputer is not a tablet was not created for the same purpose as a tablet, nor is it advertised as available on on IBM's web site for $200.00
I'm sorry you're having a problem choosing which IBM device you should be comparing to the Nexus or the Vizio. (Maybe this is why you cant understand the difference between a loopsided comparison ie super computer vs tablet and lopsided results Vizio vs Nexus) instead of a super computer I would suggest the Idea tablet A1 since its in the same price range is designed for the same purpose and is currently on their website. The comparision has everyhing to do wifh free enterprise it is one of the main reasons the Nexus is available for $200.00 and why Vizio can choose to use old technology (there is no governing body interviening and telling Nexus to sell there tablets for more or telling Vizio to use more state of the art technology). This is the very definition of free enterprize

Vizio believes due to the fact that our tablets use inferior or older components then other manufacturers who sell their tablets for the same price we don't recommend comparing us to them because it just wouldn't be fair.
Thank you and enjoy your Vizio tablet experience?

 

[J515OP]

The fact is that you can compare these two tablets or any two items really, which was the point of using a supercomputer. Just because you can compare any two items and that those items both happen to be tablets or both happen to be in the same price range doesn't inherently make the comparison fair. So it is fair to compare (nobody can stop you from comparing two things) but the comparison isn't necessarily fair (lopsided comparisons can happen apples vs. oranges).

Comparisons have nothing to do with free enterprise. The choice of market price and technology used or any other aspect of a product or service is solely that of the manufacturer or provider no comparison is needed to determine these aspects. Comparison doesn't have anything to do with the Nexus price or the age of technology in the Vtab or intervening governing bodies. Comparison is the act of looking at similarities and differences between items. If you eliminate comparison you can still have free enterprise therefore they are unrelated. Perhaps you are confusing regulation/competition/choice and comparison as they relate to free enterprise?

I think it is unfair and inaccurate for you to say that Vizio chooses to use old technology and why you don't see the comparison itself as lopsided (only the results). Vizio used current technology at the time their tablet was sold. The tablet may still be available for sale but that doesn't mean it is still being manufactured and it is a choice by Vizio to use old technology. It is just what was available at the time and what they used at the time of manufacture.

So yes Vizio has a choice but that choice is simply to sell or not sell the remaining stock of Vtabs which have older technology. That is free enterprise, the ability to choose to continue to sell a product you have already made with the technology available at the time it was made. By your measure you can look at the Nexus 2 years from now and say that Google is choosing to use old technology.

So comparison is not free enterprise. Comparison is a tool to evaluate similarities or differences between two or more things. This is where relevancy of the comparison comes in. If you compare two things that are dissimilar you will have a lopsided comparison and a lopsided result. To the extent that the Vtab and Nexus are both tablets you can currently buy or that they are in about the same price range you can compare them. However this is not a very relevant comparison given the current state of tablet technology and prices which makes the comparison lopsided (i.e. the Vtab is not relevant to the current tablet world).

Like I said before you are free to compare. The results may be lopsided or not. At the end of the day you need to see what the comparison is telling you. In this case it tells you that by tablet criteria the Vtab is irrelevant compared to the relative value of the Nexus 7. If the Vtab has the features you want at a price you determine to be appropriate then it may still be worthy of consideration on its own value which has nothing to do with how it compares to a different device.

 

[J515OP]

Just one more post to bring this all the way back around to the original post. Yes you can compare the Vtab to the Nexus 7. This will mainly highlight the differences in performance between the two. As some people have said, in light of their performance to cost ratio and that the Vtab is a year older than the Nexus 7 the results of such a comparison can be considered lopsided. It is interesting to note the differences but as a head to head endeavor it doesn't have much relevance.

Cheers,

JP

 

[bmw328]

The fact is that you can compare these two tablets or any two items really, which was the point of using a supercomputer. Just because you can compare any two items and that those items both happen to be tablets or both happen to be in the same price range doesn't inherently make the comparison fair. So it is fair to compare (nobody can stop you from comparing two things) but the comparison isn't necessarily fair (lopsided comparisons can happen apples vs. oranges).

YOU could compare any two items, apples to oranges or super computer to tablets however, I don't know why YOU would. Usually the purpose of a comparision is to make a choice between two LIKE ITEMS (apples to apples) . Which AGAIN would make it a fair comparison.

Comparisons have nothing to do with free enterprise.

Comparison has everything to do with Free Enterprise. Free enterprise gives us differences that allow comparisons if we didn't have free enterprise we wouldn't have CHOICES and therefore wouldn't be able to make intelligent comparisons. You would still be able to compare super computers to tablets if you like.


" If you eliminate comparison you can still have free enterprise therefore they are unrelated"

This statement make no sense what so ever, if it did the following would also be true

If you eliminate your brother you can still have your sister therefore they are unrelated.

I think it is unfair and inaccurate for you to say that Vizio chooses to use old technology and why you don't see the comparison itself as lopsided (only the results). Vizio used current technology at the time their tablet was sold. The tablet may still be available for sale but that doesn't mean it is still being manufactured and it is a choice by Vizio to use old technology.

Did you even read this?
"I think it is unfair and inaccurate for you to say that Vizio chooses to use old technology"
" The tablet may still be available for sale but that doesn't mean it is still being manufactured and it is a choice by Vizio to use old technology."
So it is both fair and accurate.

By your measure you can look at the Nexus 2 years from now and say that Google is choosing to use old technology.

Absolutely, if the Nexus 7 is still being sold and advertised on their web site for the same price as their competitions like devices I would expect it to be compared and I would expect the results to be loopsided. Fair comparison loopsided results.

So comparison is not free enterprise

Why would you think it is?

Like I said before you are free to compare. The results may be lopsided or not. At the end of the day you need to see what the comparison is telling you. In this case it tells you that by tablet criteria the Vtab is irrelevant compared to the relative value of the Nexus 7. If the Vtab has the features you want at a price you determine to be appropriate then it may still be worthy of consideration on its own value which has nothing to do with how it compares to a different device.

The only way to determine this is to compare the two like items to each other based on some commonalities thus making it a fair comparison. Apples to Apples albeit one apple doesn't taste so good

Vizio believes due to the fact that our tablets use inferior or older components then other manufacturers who sell their tablets for the same price we don't recommend comparing us to them because it just wouldn't be fair.
Thank you and enjoy your Vizio tablet experience?

 

[J515OP]

Ok, off topic but...

Comparison has everything to do with Free Enterprise. Free enterprise gives us differences that allow comparisons if we didn't have free enterprise we wouldn't have CHOICES and therefore wouldn't be able to make intelligent comparisons. You would still be able to compare super computers to tablets if you like.

You would still have choice without comparison it would just be uninformed choice. I can buy a or b I just won't be able to know the similarities or differences of a and b. At a basic level comparisons help make choices but they don't create free enterprise. The only requirement for free enterprise is an open market governed by supply and demand without regulation or interference. Comparison is not a requirement of such a market therefore comparison != free enterprise.

" If you eliminate comparison you can still have free enterprise therefore they are unrelated"

This statement make no sense what so ever, if it did the following would also be true

If you eliminate your brother you can still have your sister therefore they are unrelated.

No, this is more like saying my brother helps our sister with her job. If I eliminate my brother my sister still has her job. Sister's job has nothing to do with brother.

Did you even read this?
"I think it is unfair and inaccurate for you to say that Vizio chooses to use old technology"
" The tablet may still be available for sale but that doesn't mean it is still being manufactured and it is a choice by Vizio to use old technology."
So it is both fair and accurate.

Nope, Vizio is not choosing to use old technology. They chose to use current technology. That was the choice at the time. The technology is old by today's standards only but the choice isn't being made today it was made in the past. You can say Vizio's tablets have older technology compared to today's tablets but you can't say Vizio chooses older technology.

If you have a source to show that the chips Vizio used in their tablets at the time of their manufacture was older relative to the chips being used in other tablets at the time of manufacture then you have a case. However, it appears that at the time they made the tablets the hardware they used was what was reasonably available at that time. You could also show that Vizio is continuing to make the Vtab using the same original components. In that case they would be choosing to use old technology. However, I haven't heard anything about Vtab continuing to be made.

Absolutely, if the Nexus 7 is still being sold and advertised on their web site for the same price as their competitions like devices I would expect it to be compared and I would expect the results to be loopsided. Fair comparison loopsided results.

Some will see it as fair some will not. Again, it has to do with relevancy of the thing being compared. You run into the same problem trying to compare many things.

"So comparison is not free enterprise."
Why would you think it is?

I don't think it is and that is what I said. I don't think that comparison has to be a part of free enterprise or have everything to do with free enterprise. So comparison is not free enterprise.

The only way to determine this is to compare the two like items to each other based on some commonalities thus making it a fair comparison. Apples to Apples albeit one apple doesn't taste so good

So why are you comparing the taste of a month old rotten apple to a fresh apple? Doesn't it make more sense to compare two fresh apples? Again, it is relevancy of the comparison which can bee seen as a lopsided comparison and/or a lopsided result. Some will say lopsided comparison some will say lopsided result.


Now, pages later it still comes back to the same thing. You can compare the two all you want nobody is preventing you from doing so and you get a lopsided result. Others have said that the lopsided result is because of a lopsided comparison (not a fair comparison). Why can't that also be the case? If the relevancy is low enough the comparison can be considered unfair and the last time I checked there is no absolute standard for relevancy for these sorts of things. In your opinion being concurrently for sale in the same price range is relevancy for comparison. In the opinion of others comparing something out for a month to something a year old in a category with short life cycles means the comparison is irrelevant.

 

[bmw328]

It's obviously a waste of time repling to your post since as in your previouse posts you attempt to change the wording of everything you say. Trying to support a weak argument in this manner becomes obvious to the educated or in this case anyone who can read. Again, I have to ask are you a politician?

This is my favorite nonsensical change:

No, this is more like saying my brother helps our sister with her job. If I eliminate my brother my sister still has her job. Sister's job has nothing to do with brother.

Even with this change which isn't even remotely close to your original statement, if sister can't do her job without brothers help and you eliminate brother, I can assure you sisters job would be in jeopardy (at least in the normal compare tablets to tablets not super computers world) therefore brother does have something to do with sisters job.

Maybe you want to change it again because that one didn't work either.


If you honestly feel that comparing a tablet that is currently available to another tablet currently available (both selling for virtually the same price) is like comparing a Pinto to a Musing or a tablet to a super computer or a VW to Porsche then I should have understood who I was dealing with.

Lastly, I realized you know nothing about the Vtab if you did you would know on its release it was widely criticized for using older technology.


I've become bored of this its like having a gun at a kife fight or in this case it's like having the Nexus 7 when everyone else has a Vizio VTab

 

[Androidfonefan]

Lol you have lost track of who you are talking to. I am the one you asked if i was a Politician earlier.
If you can't keep track of who you are talking to, how can you be sure of your facts, (questionable tho they may be,).

 

[J515OP]

It's obviously a waste of time repling to your post since as in your previouse posts you attempt to change the wording of everything you say. Trying to support a weak argument in this manner becomes obvious to the educated or in this case anyone who can read. Again, I have to ask are you a politician?

This is my favorite nonsensical change:


Even with this change which isn't even remotely close to your original statement, if sister can't do her job without brothers help and you eliminate brother, I can assure you sisters job would be in jeopardy (at least in the normal compare tablets to tablets not super computers world) therefore brother does have something to do with sisters job.

Maybe you want to change it again because that one didn't work either.


If you honestly feel that comparing a tablet that is currently available to another tablet currently available (both selling for virtually the same price) is like comparing a Pinto to a Musing or a tablet to a super computer or a VW to Porsche then I should have understood who I was dealing with.

Lastly, I realized you know nothing about the Vtab if you did you would know on its release it was widely criticized for using older technology.


I've become bored of this its like having a gun at a kife fight or in this case it's like having the Nexus 7 when everyone else has a Vizio VTab

Well I think readers can make up their own minds about the posts. I have tried to be informative and conversational. I don't have any bias against one tablet vs. another. I have certainly been around the tablets in question enough to know the relative specs of the Vizio and it was certainly in line with performance specs and price compared to its peers at the time of release. Upon its release it offered good technology at a reasonable price. It was not the top performer at release but it didn't have the price top performers did either. A fair comparison would be to the original Samsung Galaxy Tab 7.0 which also had 1 GHz processor, 512MB of RAM and was considered decently spec'd as well and was a leading tablet at the time (and though it has a different feature set that explains some of the price difference was much more expensive). By today's standards both look old but neither did at the time.


Going back to the brother sister comparison, you brought up that relationship and mangled the analogy regarding comparison to free enterprise with the brother and sister. Using that as the basis I only modified to make the analogy work. Comparisons help consumers as a tool in the free market but comparison doesn't create the free market. As brother helps sister with job, does not create job for sister or keep sister employed. You changed the argument saying without brother's help sister has no job. It was never said sister can't do her job without brother just that brother helps. Comparison helps consumers in a free market but is not responsible for the free market. I don't need to change anything I said because it is a valid analogy when corrected this way, brother's help != sister's employment and comparison != free enterprise. Take brother or comparison away and the other part of the analogy still exists because the first part is not the reason for the second.

As was stated the cars were simply analogies to bring the tablet comparison discussion to a more relateable comparison, cars. There were two different analogies by two different people, so this isn't an uncommon way of relating such things and independently both made the same point. Quite simply the point is comparing something that is older and was not considered a peak performer to something that is newer and is considered a peak generally equates to an unfair comparison. Since it doesn't seem that this point makes sense to you several other analogies were provided to help you out. Cars, super computers, apples and oranges the point remains the same:

Regardless of what something costs or if it is currently for sale (your arbitrary criteria for a fair comparison) comparing something that is older and was not considered a peak performer to something that is newer and is considered a peak performer generally equates to an unfair comparison.

This brings up the entire issue of relevance of the comparison as another way to demonstrate the points not grasped by using the other analogies. You are free to compare anything you want but if the relevance of the comparison is not high enough the comparison will be unfair (VW vs. Prosche, Pinto vs. Mustang, tablet vs. super pc, apples vs. oranges, fresh apples vs. old apples). In each case the examples provided have consistently demonstrated the same point that a relevancy threshold is being crossed by comparing old and average to new and high performance leading to a lopsided comparison, specifically Vtab to Nexus 7.

More than likely others have received this message. If you have not that is ok, not everybody sees things the same way. Sometimes it is better to have a knife at a gun fight:



To answer your question, no I am not a politician but I am thinking of running. It sounds like you already perceive me as a politician so I am sure I can count on your vote (otherwise why would you pay me the complement of implying that I am somebody that could hold a political office just by my comments here).

JP

 

[bmw328]

Lol you have lost track of who you are talking to. I am the one you asked if i was a Politician earlier.
If you can't keep track of who you are talking to, how can you be sure of your facts, (questionable tho they may be,).

I have NO doubts as to my facts look them up they are in no way questionable (since unlike your post mine are actually based on facts) . I think the average person could see how I could get you two confused seeing as how its hard to believe two individuals could be so wrong then resort to politician like arguments which ignore facts and instead introduce ALLOT of useless rhetoric in an attempt to justify their inane argument.

To answer your question, no I am not a politician but I am thinking of running. It sounds like you already perceive me as a politician so I am sure I can count on your vote (otherwise why would you pay me the complement of implying that I am somebody that could hold a political office just by my comments here).
JP

Your indication that you are thinking of running doesn't surprise me at all. You already have the ability to ignore the facts and ramble on excessively now if you can just ignore the needs of the public . Wait, you already have since the original post was to compare the Vizio to the Nexus and you like a politician feel the need to tell everyone why you think the comparison is unfair. The fact that you think this is a compliment tells me more about you then your non-sensical post.

 

[IndyOne]

This thread is proof that people will argue about anything on the internet, regardless of how silly it makes them look.

 

[J515OP]

This thread is proof that people will argue about anything on the internet, regardless of how silly it makes them look.

Argue, discuss, fine line I say As long as it remains friendly this is the most action the Vizio forum has had since the update to GB and the Flash discussion Hopefully Vizio will return to tablets and when they do they will pay attention to some of the stuff the users are actually talking about.

 

[J515OP]

I have NO doubts as to my facts look them up they are in no way questionable (since unlike your post mine are actually based on facts) .

You already have the ability to ignore the facts and ramble on excessively now if you can just ignore the needs of the public . Wait, you already have since the original post was to compare the Vizio to the Nexus...

Are your sure you have your facts correct? The first post is actually a first impression of the Nexus 7 and more of a mini review than a head to head comparison between the tablets. The first post that turns it into a comparison discussion is post 3 (yours) and post 7 (also yours) which included a heavy dose of opinion not facts.

Everybody understands that the OP asked for a comparison. My point is the Vizio always felt like a compromise the Nexus doesn't.

In fact the original post did not ask for a comparison but offered some thoughts about the Nexus 7 coming from a Vtab user with an update after further use in several subsequent posts. After opinions were expressed that were different than yours you continued to get hung up on comparisons between the devices. I didn't step into the conversation until the third page of the thread by which time the thread had already come off topic. The first two pages contain some useful thoughts and insight about the experience of changing over from a Vtab to a Nexus 7 and some of the related issues.

If I have failed the needs of the public it is only with respect to you. For the rest I have provided counterpoint and entertainment regarding your off topic quest. I think it is a good thing this forum is able to support such lengthy back and forth without having it completely devolve into "I"m going to kick your butt," "Meet me somewhere" or some other ridiculous base forum rant, threat or insult.

Carry on.

JP

 

[Androidfonefan]

Can't believe this discussion is still going on.

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