FroYo/2.2 Coming Week of April 11?

[rico2001]

Unless they're expanding their business model, I kind of think they will maintain the ereader profile and market it as having some, or maybe most, android tablet capabilities. It keeps them out of the intense competition of the main tablet arena with the big boys and, which has been said before, deflects negative comments.

I kind of agree, although we all (all as in rooters) may be missing the point in which come next week, we will have a b&n 2.2 rom (software) to root and enjoy. I still don't get the "if they make it into a full tablet" saying thrown around. Whether if they make their own restricted market or allow us access to the android market, the ability to add or remove apps make the Nook Color a Tablet... period. This is the first thing every rooted NC owners already knows the moment we completed the root process. If the NC does or does not compete with some other tablets is irrelevant. If you read this forum, you know there is a vast range of android tablets with many different feature and functions, from $100 to $1000. Whatever direction B&N takes the Nook Color, it has already been a win for all who own one.

 

[LocalStain]

But I DO know that every consumer electronic device that is sold as a loss leader is clamped down tightly and legal action taken against anyone who unlocks/roots/jailbreaks that device.

How do you know this?

The iPhone Jailbreak Ruling: Copyright Law's New Twist - TIME

"After a recent teardown of the Nook Color, it was estimated that the total cost of the parts of each NC add up to somewhere around $200. *While a $50 profit is better than a loss, it probably isn't considered worthwhile for a massive book chain trying to compete with amazon.com and Borders. *So they're obviously counting on the sale of digital content from within the Nook Color to make their real profits." from here Barnes & Noble pulling Nook Color for 2 weeks--to ready anti-root measures? [UPDATE: probably not] | Android Central

So you say $50 profit on each device but there is still development, marketing, distribution etc. So I am fairly confident in my loss leader statement. I could be wrong. It has happened once or twice.

Back to your original point. The Supreme Court of The United States has ruled that jailbreaking isn't illegal so I have a bit of trouble with your statement. While I am sure this may be true with appliances that utilize 3g, 4g, or publicly accessible broadband such as cellular phones, why on earth would B&N go after the consumers that have elevated their humble e-reader to a position second only to the ipad? They could have very easily locked down the boot loader and been in second place behind the Kindle. This is the point I was trying to make in my op. It would be, not only cost prohibitive, but really bad publicity if they tried to reverse their stance now.

 

[LocalStain]

I kind of agree, although we all (all as in rooters) may be missing the point in which come next week, we will have a b&n 2.2 rom (software) to root and enjoy. I still don't get the "if they make it into a full tablet" ~ If you read this forum, you know there is a vast range of android tablets with many different feature and functions, from $100 to $1000. Whatever direction B&N takes the Nook Color, it has already been a win for all who own one.

And this

 

[AnimaTechnica]

update: edited since i see LocalStain posted the BoM for Nook already

clearly it is a loss leader - and content is the revenue driver - but ebooks alone is not enough to grow the market - so BN has to expand the target audience by including other content as part of the offering - and therefore they need to have more functionality - while likely not an open tablet, they will endow nook color with the ability to play these new content

=WillysJeepMan;74040]Do you have any evidence to support your claim that the nook color is priced as a "loss leader"? I don't have any, either in support or refutation of such a claim. But I DO know that every consumer electronic device that is sold as a loss leader is clamped down tightly and legal action taken against anyone who unlocks/roots/jailbreaks that device. The fact that B&N has been eerily silent on rooting tells me that they aren't taking a loss on each nook color sale.

I will continue to stand by my belief that B&N will morph the nook color into a full-fledged Android tablet over time. They are brilliantly growing the nook color customer base primarily by hiding behind the "color ereader" label. Detractors can't take shots at the deficiencies of the nook color as a tablet because it isn't marketed as a tablet. This gives B&N time to work (behind the scenes) and rework the underlying Android OS and apps to make a real polished offering. By the time they pull the covers off and reveal the tablet functionality, it will be a win-win for them and for existing nook color owners. There are many already who are choosing a rooted nook color over a Motorola Xoom or Samsung Galaxy Tab. That's saying a lot.

But obviously time will tell.

Sent from my NookColor using Tapatalk

 

[rokky]

update: edited since i see LocalStain posted the BoM for Nook already

clearly it is a loss leader - and content is the revenue driver - but ebooks alone is not enough to grow the market - so BN has to expand the target audience by including other content as part of the offering - and therefore they need to have more functionality - while likely not an open tablet, they will endow nook color with the ability to play these new content

Sent from my NookColor using Tapatalk

If the BoM is anywhere near accurate, then that indicates a 25% markup, and I call it markup, not profit, because the point made earlier about overhead costs that have to come out of that margin is quite valid. However, if this is a valid estimate of 3 million NC's being sold ( Barnes & Noble Ships Three Million NOOK Colors ), then that should mean $150m to cover those overhead costs, and some of that would be shared with other revenue sources (such as book sales). That should leave something to actually call profit I would think, and not something for B&N to ignore in their strategy.

I hope you are right about playing other content such as digital copies of the movies I have bought recently - seems they need some DRM-enabled players that I don't have with my Archos 5 (thought that was one of its strong points over "generic" Android?). Then again, I could just rip them with something that drops the encryption as I do with most of my ebooks to read on whichever of my devices I want. Interesting BusinessWire "article" (reads more like a B&N press release) about more such content: http://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20110325005403/en/Barnes-Noble’s-NOOK-Color™-Reader’s-Tablet-Great

While searching for sales figure info, I came across a link to a blog posting on a site for writers about channels for getting ebooks published: http://thewritersguidetoepublishing...nes-and-noble-nook-tough-market-to-break-into . The writer was lamenting how her use of Smashwords for B&N did not seem to work nearly as well as whatever she was using to get published on Amazon (comparing sales figures/revenue/payment schedules), and that she was going to try B&N's own Pub-It product since there were indications it gets better results. Posted in the discussion was an item by a foreign (Brit?) writer that B&N does not accept submissions from outside the US as opposed to Amazon's more open policy, so guess where he prefers to publish? B&N seems to be missing some opportunities here to increase their offerings (and make authors happier). Authors want to ride the Nook wave, but B&N is making it harder than it should be.

An another note: I had no idea my little query that started this thread would lead to so much interesting discussion - cool!

 

[AnimaTechnica]

yes this is a very enjoyable and civil discussion -

rokky on the markup - remember we are just stating bill of materials - it does not include labor, shipping, and other associated expenses of bringing product to market so that really there is no profit

If the BoM is anywhere near accurate, then that indicates a 25% markup, and I call it markup, not profit, because the point made earlier about overhead costs that have to come out of that margin is quite valid. However, if this is a valid estimate of 3 million NC's being sold ( Barnes & Noble Ships Three Million NOOK Colors ), then that should mean $150m to cover those overhead costs, and some of that would be shared with other revenue sources (such as book sales). That should leave something to actually call profit I would think, and not something for B&N to ignore in their strategy.

I hope you are right about playing other content such as digital copies of the movies I have bought recently - seems they need some DRM-enabled players that I don't have with in my Archos 5 (thought that was one of its strong points over "generic" Android?). Then again, I could just rip them with something that drops the encryption as I do with most of my ebooks to read on whichever of my devices I want. Interesting BusinessWiere "article" (reads more like a B&N press release) about more such content: Barnes & Noble

While searching for sales figure info, I came across a link to a blog posting on a site for writers about channels for getting ebooks published: WG2E Real Numbers: Barnes and Noble Nook Tough Market to Break Into . The writer was lamenting how her use of Smashwords for B&N did not seem to work nearly as well as whatever she was using to get published on Amazon (comparing sales figures/revenue/payment schedules), and that she was going to try B&N's own Pub-It product since there were indications it gets better results. Posted in the discussion was an item by a foreign (Brit?) writer that B&N does not accept submissions from outside the US as opposed to Amazon's more open policy, so guess where he prefers to publish? B&N seems to be missing some opportunities here to increase their offerings (and make authors happier). Authors want to ride the Nook wave, but B&N is making it harder than it should be.

An another note: I had no idea my little query that started this thread would lead to so much interesting discussion - cool!

 

[LocalStain]

Yes, yes this is an awesome thread! So much amazing input.

One thing I didn't mention in my op is the recent developments in the Appstore department. With B&N inviting developers they are adding yet another revenue stream (70/30 Dev/B&N split) Now whether this was planned from the inception of the NC or something that was developed after they saw where us rooters were taking things is a question for B&N. However it does indicate that they are more than willing to expand on the e-reader platform. Because what do apps do but (hopefully) add functionality to the hardware. Again outside of B&N so development costs are nominal as far as they are concerned.

Capitalism, free markets, buy low sell high, COMPETITION is the name of game. This is good for all of us.

 

[gadgetrants]

Hmmm...Sunday morning and I'm tempted to dip my toe into the "stream."

I think what sometimes makes my perspective unhelpful (at least this is what my wife tells me) is that I too easily slip into the role of devil's advocate. I'm sure she's right. But if I can do so for just a second...

...I agree 100% that a B&N app store = more choices. And it's also pretty evident that getting developers involved should add diversity, creativity, etc. I'm sure outside devs will think up app ideas that B&N's own team might not normally invent.

But I think two questions/issues remain unclear: First, what will B&N's policy be regarding the "intent" of the apps? Early signs (back to January) pointed heavily to a "walled garden", not so much in the security/openness sense, but in how the "allowed" apps serve the user. We saw phrases like "reading-centered apps" and "curated app store." To be fair, it was probably the blogosphere making up those phrases. Here is an interesting comment from a few days ago:

Barnes & Noble seeks third party apps for the NOOKcolor | Android Tablet World

Barnes & Noble says reading-centric apps such as dictionary, thesaurus, or atlas apps are encouraged, as well as educational apps, travel aids, apps about hobbies such as cooking or gardening, and apps that can provide reading library states, note-taking, or other productivity features focused on reading and writing.

While the company is also looking for games, it appears Barnes & Noble envisions the NOOKcolor as a device for word, puzzle, card, trivia, and other casual games that might appeal to mainstream customers as opposed to hard-core first person shooters or racing games.

Of course, third party apps can make or break a platform, and I wouldn’t be shocked if Barnes & Noble starts out with reading-centric apps only to find out that there’s a demand for other types of apps as well.

My personal view on this is that B&N will start out with worse-than-Apple tight reins on the apps they offer (kudos to Amazon's new app store for being competitive and keeping things pretty open, content-wise, if not as wild-west as the Android Market). I am betting the first 2-3 days, NC owners will say, "This is silly, I can get much better apps elsewhere."

The second question is: how will B&N respond once they discover that "there's a demand for other types of apps as well"? I hear a lot of optimism and good, basic common-sense on this thread. Any of you would make SUPERB advisors to B&N's product development group! But I'm not sure their decision-making is limited to the factors we've discussed here: profit from the hardware, sales of books and magazine subscriptions, back-door competition in the tablet world, etc.

I've consulted a teeny bit with a toy company, and what I learned from them is that what the public sees on the shelves and in the ads is often the result of a process that occurs over a year in advance. In many cases, development and manufacturing occur SO FAR in advance of shipping that when the product arrives, it sometimes appears to be too slow a response to marketplace conditions. The public wonders, "why didn't they offer feature X?", "everyone knows that feature Y is stupid!" Much of the conversation here presumes that B&N can turn their hardware design or marketing plan on a dime, and I wonder if it's not a lot more like an aircraft carrier.

A related point is that (of course) B&N has numerous product divisions. Sometimes our discussion feels as though this is their primary concern when...who knows? Maybe their brick-and-mortar contracts with Starbucks is their primary profit? I have no clue. But it reminds me of the few months I owned the Pandigital Novel: the conversation was very similar to the one here..."don't they know what they've created?", "this device has amazing potential," "if they open it up and embrace it as a tablet, they'll make so much more money." In the end, it became pretty clear the PDN was a small side project for them. I don't think we know yet how the NC ranks among B&N's money-makers.

I have several other related (devil's advocate) musings, but I should definitely stop at this point. It's no joke guys: we're all used to discussions like this that turn into flame-wars. It's simply amazing that we've made it this far with warmth and positive regard for each other.

-Matt

 

[gadgetrants]

OK, even for ME that was ridiculously long! I'm putting myself on a no-respond diet for a few days.

-Matt

 

[AnimaTechnica]

Matt if that is what you call devil's advocate, then i gotta change my definition of well reasoned discourse
and a very good point that BN has other avenues for revenue - sometimes i get carried away thinking nook is the center of the universe

OK, even for ME that was ridiculously long! I'm putting myself on a no-respond diet for a few days.

-Matt

 

[gadgetrants]

Matt if that is what you call devil's advocate, then i gotta change my definition of well reasoned discourse
and a very good point that BN has other avenues for revenue - sometimes i get carried away thinking nook is the center of the universe

Please, don't feed the animals...er, um...devils.

-Matt

 

[rokky]

yes this is a very enjoyable and civil discussion -

rokky on the markup - remember we are just stating bill of materials - it does not include labor, shipping, and other associated expenses of bringing product to market so that really there is no profit

Well, it will be hard for us outsiders to know for sure without the exact internal numbers from B&N. I just looked at their latest annual report, and it only mentions the original Nook, and that is only in very general terms, generally positive about how it has worked with their online bookstore to offset declines in sales of physical books. The reporting period is through "to the Saturday closest to the last day of April.", so we should be seeing something about the impact of the NC in the next report due out sometime after this month.

One cost not associated with the NC that is associated with the 3g version of the Nook eInk ("Nook-e"? ) is the ongoing payment to AT&T for the 3g access. That is something I gleaned from last year's annual report. I bet one reason they don't offer that with NC is a healthy fear that the hackers they know to be all over the NC would find a way to get a "free ride" on that service, and get AT&T into a snit - and charge B&N accordingly. They should consider a way to meter that, and get a cut from AT&T, for those willing to pay, if not explicitly enable tethering as Archos has done (or attempts to...).

 

[LocalStain]

Wow! This just keeps getting better, Matt and Rokky loving the input. It seems that in lieu of an actual debate we've all come to this thread to agree on our latest silicon obsession. Either way great info from everyone!

I find it amazing how passionately everyone has approached this, we obviously care deeply for this little gizmo. I also think it is hilariously presumptuous of us to suss out B&N's motivations on any level but that is the beauty of well-informed forum.

Also the respect and civility that has been displayed really blows me away. Last night one of our newer members lamented to me that he was worried about members getting upset about his multiple (seemingly) silly questions. He made it clear that in the past on other forums he was subjected to ridicule etc for such inquiries. I think he said that people can be jerks. I assured him jerks don't last long around these parts. And again as displayed here, an innate sense of community and respect.

Bloody Brilliant.

BTW went to the bird sanctuary today, the peacocks are out and about. Thought I'd share.

 

[rokky]

Matt:
Re apps intentions, your points about reading-focused are what I recall from when I signed up for the dev program back in late Oct last year when it was first announced. I don't know that walled-garden was explicit, but it seems as though that could be implied now that you mention it

I have no Android programming experience as yet - I just recently finished an online Java intro course to get "re-acquainted" with that environment, and am thinking about digging into some self-learning books for Android programming with the Nook dev program as a practical application.

I think a real telltale for release of 2.2 will be an update to the SDK available from the developer program. I do not see how they can expect to get apps as useful as they could be if they do not update that kit ASAP with the 2.2 update. More often, developers get updates ahead of general release to prepare updated apps to take advantage of a platform update. I just checked the dev site SDK download, and it is still 2.1, so that is not a good sign for an imminent update of the platform to 2.2. It could be they expect backward compatibility support to keep the apps coming, but that strikes me as an uncoordinated, stopgap approach with their app store "planning".

FWIW

 

[rokky]

Cool bird pic - that would be awesome for a screen wallpaper